Revised Supers! - Resistances Thread https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/t18 Runboard| Revised Supers! - Resistances Thread en-us Fri, 29 Mar 2024 06:35:31 +0000 Fri, 29 Mar 2024 06:35:31 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p1733,from=rss#post1733https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p1733,from=rss#post1733Have the Brawler or the Acrobat been used in game yet? How have the characters worked out? Regards, Waltnondisclosed_email@example.com (kroh)Sat, 08 Jun 2013 08:25:40 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p1676,from=rss#post1676https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p1676,from=rss#post1676Hi All, I think I am interpreting the purpose of these different topics as brainstorming. If I am wrong, I apologize as I am about to throw out an idea for better or worse. One thing that the group I play in does with Resistances is allows superhuman levels for them if 1) the character has at least 4 dice in the Resistance at the time of character creation, and 2) that the die that moved it from 3D to 4D (in other words to a potentially superhuman level) was spent from the pool of Power dice, not from the dice used for Resistances or Aptitudes. What effect does this have in the game? For a non-super character 4D and higher Resistances are possible as in the RAW, but as in he RAW only the best 3 die rolls are used. However, if the character has a superhuman Resistance all dice are added together just as for a standard super power. So a normal with 5D would roll all 5 and take the best three as the sum. The character with a superhuman Resistance of 5D would roll all 5 dice and add them all together. This is a small, but noticeable, difference and further differentiates normals from supers and makes the Normal Disadvantage more meaningful in the game, at least it has worked out that way in our games. It also allows, in our opinion anyway, more flexibility in creating super tough or super agile characters as they can now have some super benefit without purchasing, for example, Armor as a power or something else if the player doesn't really conceptualizer the character like that. It came up with a player who wanted a super tough brawler type character but did not see him as having actual body armor per se. He just wanted the character to be super tough and resilient. Although this did not come up, the same thing could happen in the case of a player who wants a super agile character, but does not see them having super speed, for example. Initially it is a bit cheaper, but it hasn't seemed to be unbalanced in the game so far as the super Resistance can still only be used once, whereas Armor can be used multiple times. So the character tends to shrug off that first physical attack, but after tat, not so much since the Resistance cannot be used again. That said, we cannot foresee everything so maybe there is a problem in terms of doing it this way. The one thing that did come to my mind was that Armor and superhuman Fortitude Resistance could be unbalancing. Of course you could just say that you cannot have both, but I never like those sorts of, "normally that's okay but in this instance it's not" grumpy cat type of rules exceptions I must admit. It also may be a lot of worry over nothing. One of the great things about the system I think is that you can get some surprising outcomes. I have lost count at this point how many times the person rolling 3D beats the person rolling 5D! So having both a super Resistance and a power like Armor may not be that big of a deal. Thoughts on super Resistances? Potential or likely problems that we are not seeing? Mattnondisclosed_email@example.com (Graymouser65)Tue, 28 May 2013 18:32:00 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p1623,from=rss#post1623https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p1623,from=rss#post1623That's a cool way to do it urbwar. Just like when someone creates an illusion or a mental attack in the comics and the hero snaps out of it (sees through it or recovers from the attack) and then brings the fight back to them. Regards Walt nondisclosed_email@example.com (kroh)Sun, 26 May 2013 16:40:25 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p1615,from=rss#post1615https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p1615,from=rss#post1615This thread over on The Rpg Site is about Composure Damage and how to interpret it when Composure hits 0. While writing my reply, I made a suggestion on recovering Composure if you're at 0. My suggestion was spending 2-3 Competency Dice to bring the character back to 1D. This would be the character "snapping" out of whatever effect they are under. If they don't have enough Comp dice, other characters can spend theirs to assist, as long as they can justify how they are doing so. Any thoughts on this? Does it sound workable in the spirit of the rules?nondisclosed_email@example.com (urbwar)Sun, 26 May 2013 11:24:05 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p627,from=rss#post627https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p627,from=rss#post627Heya, First time poster in these here parts. IMO what really needs to be addressed in the Resistances is what happens when one or more hit 0. For my own games, when a Resistance hit 0 you were reeling, i.e. suffering and in deep doo-doo as your character attempted to cope with the negative effects of having taken such a beating. The exact effects depended upon the Resistance but basically your character was in bad shape but not out of the story YET! Side Note. When reduced to 0 or fewer Resistance I generally ruled that your ability to recover Resistance was reduced depending upon the needs of the story. When a resistance is reduced to the negative of your resistance, your character was OUT meaning you were out of the story and either mortally wounded, consumed with doubt, etc. and were done for the story. Generally this meant your character was for all intents and purposes dead, comatose, or so overwhelmed he/she hangs up his or her cape for good. In general, all Resistances were equal in terms of magnitude of the effect on the character so losing Composure was just as serious and impactful as losing all of your Reaction. >>ReaperWolfnondisclosed_email@example.com (ReaperWolf)Mon, 17 Sep 2012 01:50:45 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p209,from=rss#post209https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p209,from=rss#post209Not closing any threads, just saying it seems the discussion seems to have wrapped up on them.nondisclosed_email@example.com (AndrewCollas)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 23:01:27 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p190,from=rss#post190https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p190,from=rss#post190Keep the threads open for discussion. New ideas may be forthcoming. People may have new ideas or questions. The current topic may be 'closed' for the moment, but that does not mean that more comments won't be made. Regarding defending with no powers left. I admit that it has not occurred in any of my games. Maybe it never will. However, I wanted to pose the situation in case it ever does crop up.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Darkpaladin67)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 16:00:35 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p189,from=rss#post189https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p189,from=rss#post189Hey Andrew, When you say that a discussion is closed on a particular topic, are you saying that you'd rather we stop posting in that thread? I'm concerned because these discussions were "closed" after only a couple of days. Although I'm on here as often as I can, there will be days when I won't be able to visit at all, and days (like today) when I'll have to catch-up on old discussions. Also, there might be new people joining this community with good thoughts of their own. Just something to consider. All the best, Dragonflynondisclosed_email@example.com (TGIDragonfly)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:57:11 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p187,from=rss#post187https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p187,from=rss#post187quote:Dustland wrote: Andrew, throw a small number of low-level villains with Mind Blast at a character and you'll very quickly run out of defenses (unless said character bumped up Mind Shield). The simple answer though is you can always roll 1d to defend with, seems the reasonable way to handle it. This is true, but even then you have a few tricks up your sleave. Will, Composure, Presence, and Occultism, for instance, could be used to resist a Mental Blast, and ALL characters have those (even if at 1D). You'd need five "mental blasters" on one character for them to be totally defenseless, which is pretty rare in the source material. Even then, many characters would have other forms of defense against this, whether they be mental powers of their own, some Super Senses, or even some unexpected options. If the Hulk were the one being attacked, for example, I might allow him to defend with Super Strength. Why? Because, conceptually speaking, his Super Strength is rage based. He'd be roaring at his assailant, trying to use his rage to overcome whatever effect is being used on him. (I wouldn't let most other characters with Super Strength use this defense, though). Again, I mention these things not to silence creativity, but just to explore the options as fully as possible. All the best, Dragonflynondisclosed_email@example.com (TGIDragonfly)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:53:49 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p185,from=rss#post185https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p185,from=rss#post185quote:Darkpaladin67 What happens in the following situation? A character is being attacked by multiple foes. He has used up all his powers for the turn and has already defended with his resistances. Then he is attacked again. How would he defend against it? I agree with Andrew that this would be VERY rare. I mean, you can use even your 1D resistances to try and evade an attack, right? Still, in the event that this DOES occur, we are obviously talking an almost assured knockout. I can see the series of panels in my mind right now: the villain seen from behind and slightly in shadow, battered, bruised, costume in tatters, holding his side in pain, shoulders slouched, but lifting his gaze to see the inevitable coming at him. That inevitable might be a speedster coming at him full speed, or the cleated heal of a dark avenger swinging from a height to connect with the villain's face, or a two-fisted haymaker from a stony foe - the underlying sense of the panel, however, is that the villain simply has no more physical, mental or spiritual resolve left to avoid the outcome. Systemwise, we end up with a situation where the die result = the number of dice of damage taken. That's not a problem, though. To me that just makes narrative sense. I actually want to see the battle that resulted in this end scene! :-) All the best, Dragonflynondisclosed_email@example.com (TGIDragonfly)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:35:20 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p183,from=rss#post183https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p183,from=rss#post183quote:For me there isn't a situation I can think of where a character would be attacked so much they would run out of Powers AND Resistances AND Aptitudes to defend with. Andrew, throw a small number of low-level villains with Mind Blast at a character and you'll very quickly run out of defenses (unless said character bumped up Mind Shield). The simple answer though is you can always roll 1d to defend with, seems the reasonable way to handle it.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Dustland)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:22:42 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p176,from=rss#post176https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p176,from=rss#post176quote:Darkpaladin67 wrote: A character is being attacked by multiple foes. He has used up all his powers for the turn and has already defended with his resistances. Then he is attacked again. How would he defend against it? For me there isn't a situation I can think of where a character would be attacked so much they would run out of Powers AND Resistances AND Aptitudes to defend with. I mean that's a LOT of people attacking one guy no? Side note, with Simon's excellent description of how to use Aptitudes for spot checks, I think we can close the door on the basics of Resistance and Aptitudes and look at Boosts and Comps on them. Unless any one disagrees? nondisclosed_email@example.com (AndrewCollas)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:04:41 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p171,from=rss#post171https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p171,from=rss#post171quote:Simon W wrote: I really shouldn't have used Reaction for initiative See here's where I agree with you 100% (as well as the Resistances are not active stats thing). I saw it that way at first glance, but I have a question then... how would you do initiative on second thought? nondisclosed_email@example.com (AndrewCollas)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 14:34:09 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p169,from=rss#post169https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p169,from=rss#post169Understood about using resistances as active stats. Will keep this in mind for future discussions. I use resistances for tracking the characters well-being. I also use them for defense rolls when a character does not have a power with which to defend with. What happens in the following situation? A character is being attacked by multiple foes. He has used up all his powers for the turn and has already defended with his resistances. Then he is attacked again. How would he defend against it? I would be tempted to allow a character to defend with a resistance multiple times in the same turn, but this would make resistances too effective (as well as stealing the thuder from the armour power). nondisclosed_email@example.com (Darkpaladin67)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 14:27:45 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p161,from=rss#post161https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p161,from=rss#post161quote:urbwar wrote: I'll also stop suggesting it can be used as such, since it appears I was wrong after all You can never be wrong - you can just have your own interpretation. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Simon W)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:24:50 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p160,from=rss#post160https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p160,from=rss#post160quote:Simon W wrote: Resistances were never meant to be "stats" like in some other games. The were supposed to be more "passive" than "active" in a kind of saving throw/hit point sort of way. (I really shouldn't have used Reaction for initiative). Therefore, I think any rule where resistances are to be used "actively" should be looked at again, to see whether an Aptitude (or Power) can be used instead.   If that is the case, then Reaction really needs to have it's description revised, because besides initiative, it does read (to me) that it could be uses to roll for senses and such. However, I thought the rules are implicit that as long as you can properly justify it to the Judge, they can allow you to use it. Wouldn't that also be the case with a Resistance, regardless of whether it's supposed to be passive? If not, that needs to be clarified in the text for Supers! revised. I'll also stop suggesting it can be used as such, since it appears I was wrong after all nondisclosed_email@example.com (urbwar)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 10:51:31 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p159,from=rss#post159https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p159,from=rss#post159Resistances were never meant to be "stats" like in some other games. The were supposed to be more "passive" than "active" in a kind of saving throw/hit point sort of way. (I really shouldn't have used Reaction for initiative). Therefore, I think any rule where resistances are to be used "actively" should be looked at again, to see whether an Aptitude (or Power) can be used instead.  nondisclosed_email@example.com (Simon W)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 09:35:54 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p157,from=rss#post157https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p157,from=rss#post157quote:AndrewCollas wrote: Never said I wouldn't allow it. It came across like you implied you wouldn't though. I realize now you didn't, but one of your earlier comments leaned that way. nondisclosed_email@example.com (urbwar)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 07:39:24 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p151,from=rss#post151https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p151,from=rss#post151Never said I wouldn't allow it.nondisclosed_email@example.com (AndrewCollas)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 06:19:20 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p150,from=rss#post150https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p150,from=rss#post150Andrew, I'm not saying you can't use Investigation, but you seem inclined to not allow Reaction for it. Obviously, if you used Reaction to spot something, you can't use it for Dodge. Now take having Investigation: You use that to spot danger, then dodge. Now you can't use Investigation to pick up the clue that's there. So either way, you have used something (either a Resistance or an Aptitude). So why not allow characters to use one or the other then? Seems a simple compromisenondisclosed_email@example.com (urbwar)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 04:15:42 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p147,from=rss#post147https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p147,from=rss#post147And now I have used my reactions noticing the thing flying at my head, but I can't use them to move now, so I better fall back to my Aptitude of Athleticism, speciality Dodge to get out of the way. Same scenario with a reversed situation, using Investigation, Notice. It cuts both directions easily. Yes, Reactions is the one that best covers it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is the best cover. That's all I think everyone is trying to say man. Or at least that's all I am saying. nondisclosed_email@example.com (AndrewCollas)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 04:04:10 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p145,from=rss#post145https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p145,from=rss#post145quote:AndrewCollas wrote: I agree that it works but Reactions seems to be a more physical thing to me. I don't see how that disqualifies it. Your senses are part of you, and at least 2 (taste/touch) require physical contact to use properly. And your other senses can be interfered with physically (like a blow to the head, etc). The other 3 don't really fit, and as I keep saying, it shouldn't just be an aptitude (no offense, but I don't agree that just giving them the basic 1D in investigation works better, even with a specialization). It seems perfectly logical that one Resistance should work for basic senses, with skills/powers for those whose abilities are above the norm. Reactions are very broad, and just because one appears physical, doesn't mean it is. I don't see how saying "I look around the room, using my Reaction to try and spot something" being invalid. nondisclosed_email@example.com (urbwar)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 03:58:27 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p141,from=rss#post141https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p141,from=rss#post141I agree that it works but Reactions seems to be a more physical thing to me. I wouldn't think we need another Resistance, there is no need for that. Still I am not sure I would use Reactions for someone noticing a sneaking person on their perimeter. Since everyone gets 1D in Investigation (Aptitude), and a specialization in "Notice" or "Awareness" that works just fine for me. Also remember a LOT of these things could be modelled by Ads, like the old Talents from FASERIP. nondisclosed_email@example.com (AndrewCollas)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 03:43:51 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p140,from=rss#post140https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p140,from=rss#post140I think maybe more clarification on what they are used for, and maybe more some examples of how they are used. For instance, I mentioned that Reaction could be used for rolling for senses, since it seems the most appropriate without adding a new Resistance.nondisclosed_email@example.com (urbwar)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 03:36:21 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p134,from=rss#post134https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p134,from=rss#post134I agree that Resistances are pretty much good as is. More examples on usage of Resistances and what happens to the character when they are reduced to 0 as Darkpaladin stated would be welcome but otherwise, I don't they need any major revision.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Toric)Mon, 03 Sep 2012 01:16:41 +0000 Re: Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p115,from=rss#post115https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p115,from=rss#post115I think the resistances are good as they are. A little more definition on what happens when the resistance goes to zero could be helpful, For example, if someone looses all his composure and goes into a rage, he is not exactly out of the scene. Options could include sitting and a corner and pouting, trying to flee, blind rage and more. The options listed in the book are a good place to start, but the vagueness could cause inexperienced players some confusion. In recovering resistances. Should appropriate aptitudes (medical for fortitude, and Presense for Composure) performed by another character be enough to bring a incapacitated character back to 1D? Think of it as someone giving a KO'd person smelling salts, or Betty Ross talking the Hulk out of his dehabilitating rage. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Darkpaladin67)Sun, 02 Sep 2012 20:25:40 +0000 Revised Supers! - Resistances Threadhttps://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p92,from=rss#post92https://bzenithcomicspresents.runboard.com/p92,from=rss#post92Okay discuss the Resistances and anything that should be revised about them here.nondisclosed_email@example.com (AndrewCollas)Sun, 02 Sep 2012 17:20:07 +0000